Forum Friday: How Do You Know Catholicism Is True?
In my two-part series on Richard Dawkins' most recent attack on the Catholic Church, I explained that Dawkins and other New Atheists often focus their hatred on the Eucharist, not just because it is an obvious religious symbol, but because it represents an older, more comprehensive worldview that they reject. Convince Catholics that the Eucharist is simply bread and wine, and you can convince them that their religion is entirely without any basis other than the claims of authority.
But are the New Atheists right? Does our Faith depend entirely on authority? Or does experience of Christians verify the claims of that authority?
I recently published a piece, "O Sacrament Most Holy," in which I describe some of my own experiences that have convinced me that the Catholic Faith is indeed true. Now, I'd like you to do the same. In this thread in the Catholicism Forum, please post your own stories of experiences that brought home to you the reality of that which we know by faith.
I look forward to reading your responses, and I may feature some in a future blog post!
Hi Scott,
Very good article, as usual. I am a non-Catholic that belongs to a Church that celebrates communion and I believe they are attacking the Catholic Church in particular because of transubstantiation (metousiosis). The atheists realize that in the Protestant community it is a ritual of remembrance and does not have the same significance as it does in the Catholic Church. That is why people like PZ Myers will defile a Catholic host and not a Protestant host. Of course, Christians are the easy target, and they will not go that extra mile by offending Muslims that will do MUCH more than write a counter argument. You would think Dick Dawkins would be a little more concerned with Islam since Muhammad is going to be the most popular boy’s name in the UK in a few years. They have already tried to establish Sharia Law in several sections of the UK, and in the not so distant future, they will have a majority where they will kick the royals out on their kiesters and the Adhan will be heard from Big Ben on loud speakers. Just read Mark Steyn’s book, America Alone. Thanks!
How do I know Catholicism is true? I find Jesus’ teachings and life compelling (for reasons too numerous to write in this comment). If I believe in Him, I have to believe He is God, and I have to believe in everything He said and did, not just pick and choose what’s convenient. That means I have to believe in the True presence, the Holy Trinity and the authority of the Pope and Catholic Church. There is no other basis for morality and natural law that is not arbitrary or hypocritical. My faith leads to reason and my reason to faith.
hi,
i was born catholic and my parents brought me up in catholic ways of living.since the very beginning,i didn’t practise it.just my mother keep on telling me that beleiving GOD is the very important in our lives but i just ingnored it..catholicism is true esp.by praying the holy rosary..at first ,i didn’t beleive it..but when my life goes upside down,i started seeking GOD.i joined diff.communities (esp.non catholic community)but none of them convinced me..then one day i joined a charismatic group..that was the beginning of my vivid religious life..they appointed me to pray the ROSARY for the very first time,that was exactly the time of my father’s brain surgery..before i started,i received an sms from my mother telling me that i need to call back home.but i just closed my eyes and prayed..”DEAR LORD,iam YOUR servant,i entrusted my everything to YOU,what ever may happend,it’s YOUR will”..i continued praying and ignored calling back home..after 11 hours of waiting,i received a phone call telling that my father was alive..even the doctor’s couldn’t beleive it and they said it was miracle..what else can i do?is it not right to give HIM back HIS goodness to me?they told me that my father doesn’t have chance anymore..and HE had given him another life..bec.i beg HIM too..it was 6 years from now that im away with my family w/o seeing them.. many criticize me,but i want to shout and tell the whole world HIS goodness,that HE listens to a sincere prayers..what important is,i gain my faith,my beleif,and to apply HIS message,to have compassion,love and humility..they are right,religion is not our salvation but it’s our way through salvation..what matters most is how do we apply our learnings and how we grow up in our faith…i can say that iam one of the living proof..that GOD is a living GOD…
KAYE
YAHWEH EUCHARIST SPIRIT
Catholic Charismatic Comm.Int’l.Inc.
Paris,Chapter
Mary was born a Catholic, baptized when I was 20 days’ old because my mother had to be detained in hostpial after the caesarean operation. Otherwise, my parents would have made sure I was baptized on the 7th day!!
How do I KNOW that the Catholic Church is the Church of Christ? The whole Bible proclaims it. 1)The installation of Simon bar Jonah as the Rock upon which Christ would build His Church which the powers of hell would never prevail upon it. No other Church has faced tribulations like the Catholic Church and survived. Reason? Christ is the Head ( and behold I shall be with you until th end of time) and the Holy Spirit navigates it when it hits the worst storm 2) As Peter, he was told by Christ Himself , “I give you the keys of Heaven, whaterver you bind on earth is bound in Heaven and whatever you loosen on earth will be loosened in Heaven.” Meaning? The Authority to govern the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church as the Vicar of Christ via the Scriptures, Dogmatic Constituion and the Magisterium. The Church nourshes its faithful through the 7 Sacraments. Jesus is always with us – as he promised on Holy Thursday in the Upper Room, in the Blessed Sacrament. The Faith in His Real Presence is THE ULTIMATE TRUTH and Life on our Church 3) The whole history of the survival of Christ’s Church now for 2 thousand years amidst attacks from whatever quarters confirms Christ’s promise that His Church SHALL survive until He returns. 4) The lives of our Saints past and present, particularly the recently Canonized St. Faustina of Christ’s chosen Secretary of the Eucharistic Apostolate of The Divine Mercy. 5) Jesus said. The world shall hate you because it hated Me first. The world will persecute you because it has persecuted Me for doing good and they will kill Me, but I shall rise from the dead on the third day. And He did just that. As He hung on the Cross dying, He left us the path to follow – “Forgive them for they know not what they are doing”. So we always forgive our tormentors as a Church and as individual Catholics, we pray for them as Christ taught us to do.
Need I go on? At 71 years I have no doubt the Catholic Church is THE CHURCH OF CHRIST but I also believe He died to save all mankind and He opened Heaven for all people of goodwill. Salvation is for all mankind, those who know by reason the right things to do and the evil things that should not be done and, therefore, lead a blameless life by striving to do the right things at all times. The 10 Commandments are written into each person’s heart by God Himself.
How do we know anything is true? Epistemology is the highest order field of learning, as all others depend on it.
Philosophers from Parmenides on to Hume and beyond have wrestled with this one. Experience is a weak reed to build on. The English empiricists did not get off of the ground, because in the end, the greatest of them, Hume, realized that they all fall apart when they hit the problem of induction. Mormons know Mormonism is true, because of a burning in the bosom. Scott knows Catholicism is true because of a felt presence in a church building some 20-years ago. Buddhists know Buddhism is true and Muslims know Islam is true for similar reasons.
Christians know Christianity is true because God said it is true in the Word. How do Christians know the Word is true? The same way that Abraham knew God was speaking to him, and Moses knew God was speaking to him — they knew God was speaking to them because God was speaking to them. The Bible can not be proved true, from anything else. It is received by faith, the gift of the Holy Spirit. The Bible can prove experiences are true, experiences can not prove the Bible is true.
The beginning point of epistemology is the axiom that the Bible is the Word of God. All else, (including your belief that you are reading these words) is built on sinking sand. All knowledge starts with the Word and what can logically be deduced from the Word. Logic is not an experience. It is uncreated. God was logical before creation. He was and is infinitely logical. God is the Logos.
The Bible tells me so, must be the root of all epistomology.
I applaud the Chronicles crowd for connecting Conservatism with Catholicism — because they are very closely related. They both make idols of the traditions of men.
How do I know conservatism and Roman Catholicism are untrue? I start with “Thou shalt not kill” and “Love your enemy”.
The following quotes are taken from and noted in John Robbins’s 1999 essay on “Roman Catholic Totalitarianism”, which can be googled and found on the internet at trinityfoundation.com.
In the 13th century the Albigensians were exterminated, the Beziers were massacred and the Inquisition was established. This is first order totalatarianism not loving ones enemies.
Thomas Aquinas wrote in ST ii-ii Q 10: “These [heretics] are to be compelled, even by physical force, to carry out what they promised and to hold what they once accepted.”
In the 15th century the Pope wrote to the King of Poland: “While there is still time then, turn your forces against Bohemia; burn, massacre, make deserts everywhere, for nothing could be more agreeable to God, or more useful to the cause of kings, than the extermination of the Hussites.”
In my opinion that Papal writing is blasphemous, and not in keeping with thou shalt not kill.
In 1888 Leo XIII wrote, “And although in the extraordinary condition of these times the Church usually aquiesces in certain modern liberties, not becasue she prefers them in themselves, but because she judges it expedient to permit them, she would in happier times exercise her own liberty…”
So since, I believe that the Word of God is the basic epistemic beginning, when Canon 823 notes: “Books of the Sacred Scriptures cannot be published unless …[approved by the Apostolic See or conference of bishops]…[vernacular translations must] be approved by the same authority and also annotated with necessary and sufficient explanations.” The last chapter of scripture notes “If any man shall add unto these things [the words of the prophecy of this book], God shall add unto him the plauges that are written in this book.” Canon 823 is at best unbiblical and at worst diabolical. My starting point is faith in the Bible (which I can uderstand through the Holy Spirit, it is weird that RCs claim that they can’t understand the Bible but they can understand the Chuches explanation of the Bible), while an RCs starting point may be faith in the Roman church.
From my starting point, I think I can use scripture and logically deduce from necessary consequences that the RC church is untrue. I may not be able to deduce that it (and conservatism) is more dangerous to mankind than any other political or religious system, but I think I can produce a preponderance of Biblical and logical evidence that points in that direction.
How do I know Catholicism is the “one true” faith? I don’t. How do I know the “New Athiest” are right? I don’t. Nobody knows for sure if anything is really true. It’s a matter of faith. (right?) I was raised Catholic and had 12 years of Catholic schooling. By the time I graduated in 1991, I had pretty much dismissed the Catholic Church as nothing more then an institution of thoughtcontrol that likes to “rake in the cash”. But Hey….whatever makes your existence meaningful. If it works for you all the power to you. Just remember to let other people practice their own superstitions. Steve L. seems to have a problem with the Muslims. Steve needs to relax….it’s not Muslims ,but the Fundies who practice Islam and think they’re talking to God that are the problem. We have them in Christianity too. It’s the certainty of the “True Believer” that always worries me. (True Believers in Religion or Science.) Nothing in life is certain ,that’s what I find wonderful about life …ya never know for sure. Remember: “It’s my firm belief that you should not have firm beliefs.”
How’s it going?
Who compiled the Scriptures into what we call the Bible? Who authorizes and interprets It? The Catholic Church. It has one, unified interpretation that we are obliged to accept. Guidance by the Holy Ghost confers and guarantees this unity. If every individual possessed the right to determine for himself the meaning, then different believers would be lead in different directions, a condition which could not be imputed to
the Holy Ghost. If the Catholic Church is false then what are we to make of the first 1500 years of Christianity? It would also make us doubt The Bible, as well, which was compiled during that same time.
As for traditions, some may be of Divine institution (The
Holy Eucharist); some may be of Divine inspiration (praying for the dead); some may be purely man made (Mother’s Day, birthday parties, Thanksgiving). But even man-made customs are not intrinsically wrong, as long as they are
not sinful or scandalous. The Bible does tell us that the ancient Jewish customs are no longer efficacious in light of Christ’s salvific act. But It also tells Christians to hold fast to the traditions which have been handed down to us either through word — Sacred Tradition (which grows and develops through history, guided by the Holy Ghost); or by epistle — Sacred Scripture. In other words, we need the Bible AND we need the Sacred Traditions; not just The Bible, which nowhere states that It is the only repository of Christian belief. This is a tremendous relief considering most people were illiterate until (and even long after) the invention of printing, and could not read It anyway.
Who compiled the Scriptures into what we call the Bible? The Bible was written by men (Moses, David, Solomon, Paul, Peter, etc.) inspired by the Holy Spirit. It is the Word of God because it is the Word of God – not because various men placed various inspired writings from scrolls into books that contained many (or later all, or all plus other non-inspired apocryphal writings) of these inspired writings.
Who authorizes and interprets It? Authored by holy men of God as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. Inspired by God. It was authorized by God. I don’t read it, because men give their seal of approval to the Word, I read it because God inspired it – which I know because I have the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church has been all over the place on its interpretations, which it changes. If not, then pray tell, where o where is that ONE unified interpretation. It is all over the place, and has never been harmoniously blended together. Any attempt to do so would only add to the confusion.
“If every individual possessed the right to determine for himself the meaning, then different believers would be lead in different directions, a condition which could not be imputed to
the Holy Ghost.” The clear matters of scripture, the matters necessary for salvation, can be understood by a child. Historically, Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalians and Presbyterians have agreed on the essentials needed for salvation. There are parts of scripture that are difficult to understand. God made them interesting to encourage searching of them.
Western society is based on the INDIVIDUALITY of the Reformation. God created an individual, Adam, and then another individual, Eve, families, assemblies, nations, states and other institutions flow from the individual, which in turn was created by God. BTW, to the extent Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalians and Presbyterians disagree – the cause can be generally traced to liberalism or the inability to throw off the RC traditions of men.
How about massacring the Albigensians and Hussites? I suppose the RC church would have me tortured in an inquisition, if it wasn’t for the individual freedoms we know enjoy that sprung from the Reformation.
Regarding the first 1500 years. The holy catholic church is not false, but the “church” of Rome is totally false. Every believer is born into the universal church when they become regenerate (born again).
The “church” of Rome is just a “particular society” of unbelievers and believers. As is the local non-RC “church” I attend. However, the Romish particular society is like a totally out of control mega-mega-church with satellites all over the place, with some political power to boot. A particular society that goes out of its way to claim that it is the only “true” particular society, indeed going so far as to claim that Reformed and Evangelical Christians are not in the universal church and that the Orthodox inhabit some middle-ground, being strictly speaking “churches” but not part of the better Romish system.
During the first 500 years or so Rome’s power was not as totalitarian as it later became. During the next 1000 years there were true believers that may have considered themselves subject to the Romish particular society. By definition all those who trust in Christ’s perfect life of obedience alone and his substitutional atonement for their sins alone are regenerate and members of the universal church. During the dark ages some of those who assembled together under local particular societies subject to Rome were part of the universal church, but the great majority of them probably were not. For those who weren’t regenerate, it in the end was unfortunate, but it was still to God’s glory and all things work together for good to those who love God.
Hi Agnostic Priest,
I do have a problem with Islam because the religion is run and regulated by Fundamentalists. But, calling it a religion would be nice since it is more of a political movement than anything else. In this new age of multiculturalism (belief in nothing) and political correctness it is polite to say, “oh, it is only a small percentage that are crazy.” Well, when Christians start decapitating Muslims on You Tube, blowing themselves up in shopping malls, stoning women to death for being too “non-Western,” and executing Muslims for passing out Qu’rans, I will give them some moral equivalence. The fanatics are running the show in Islam, and there are no moderates that have the courage to speak out. Where is the M.L. King of Islam? Where is the Henry Clay of Palestine? There are none. Why? There are fanatics in every religion, but Islam is the only religion where the fanatics are the leadership and the norm. When Muslims start cleaning their own house I will “relax.” Read the Qu’ran and you will get a better view of how they see the world.
Hi Steve, Oh, I agree that Islam can be very political. Most of the countries in the Middle East are either Theocracies or their goverments are greatly influenced by religious authorities. Thats why I’m thankful for a seperation of church and state. See, us westerners are a little more enlightened.( yea I’m being a little smug.) Our Founding Fathers were smart enough to know that having one state sanctioned religion would compromise a true democracy. As for Islam being violent. Trust me, the irony was not lost on the fact that muslims issued death threats and started rioting when a Danish cartoonist drew a picture of Mohammand. But how do you know there are no moderates in Islam? The Media only focuses on the most violent,crazy, or controversal. Just look at any anti-war protest.( if they even acknowledge there is a protest.) The protesters come from all types of backgrounds and all age groups. The media loves to just focus on the college-age kid with dreadlockes and facial piercings who threw a rock into a Starbucks window. They never interview the “normal” looking middle-age man from Vets for Peace, who as something intelligent to say. I mean by your logic, all Catholics are violent “terrorists” because of the political actions of the IRA in Northern Ireland. How about the Salem Witch Trials or The Spanish Inquisition? If we are gonna start labeling certain religions as “political movements” we could be in danger of losing our own favorite religions. Then all “religions” wouldn’t be “religions” they would be “political movements” and have to start paying taxes. As for the Qu’ran….yeah I skimmed thru it. I found it mostly ridiculous ,and Allah to be insecure. But have you read the Old Testament? Yaweh had some issues too. So Steve, I still say relax brother. If I’m wrong and the muslims do rise up to take us out….I’ll help you fill sandbags and set the claymores. Have a Happy Thanksgiving.